Build The Wall (2nd Edition) | Change My Mind
00:31 "... as you well know the wall itself and ..."
04:44 "... really it's not just about the wall I've ..."
06:13 "... erecting the wall and eliminated 99% of ..."
08:35 "... imposition beyond the wall I think it ..."
10:12 "... Republican who says the wall needs to ..."
11:47 "... the wall I think we should put it into ..."
13:09 "... would be more okay with the wall and ..."
14:32 "... you put that into the wall et but you're ..."
16:03 "... but my problem with the wall is just ..."
17:21 "... with the wall is it's too expensive ..."
17:42 "... like chiseling away at the wall but ..."
18:10 "... estimates in the wall it would cost ..."
19:51 "... hmm both the wall both the wall are we ..."
20:31 "... monitoring the wall and we know that it ..."
20:52 "... problems the wall is that a lot of the ..."
23:03 "... ways to do the wall there ways to Mar ..."
27:20 "... security I just think the wall is a ..."
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Hippies and Muslims hate me!you say are you saying that the United States doesn't exist therefore there should be no borders of course time for the latest installment of change my mind real conversations on controversial topics allowing people to rationalize their own positions this one is kind of a sequel to build the wall we got a lot of drive-by yelling we have people husky as you well know the wall itself and immigration at large is a hot topic these days all Americans are hurt by uncontrolled illegal migration we don't need a wall is an immorality it's not who we are as a nation build that wall build that wall build that wall build that wall but what do real people think about president Trump's proposed border wall and about immigration at large more importantly what do they know what do you think we want to hear from you in the comments below please enjoy hello take a pardon I was reading counting yes what's your name Liv Liv Liv you suck nice to meet you Liv oh sorry Oh Mike okay I'll make this brief but I have a couple questions about your experience personally with it sure but first off let me kind of preface this what we're doing here well not debating actually the point here and I think this doesn't really happen on college campus a whole lot is about rationalizing one's position so I do support not only a wall but comprehensive immigration not only what form but enforcement laws that we currently have on the books I think that we need secure borders and I think that that's a strong component to national security so what part of that do you disagree with you're welcome to change my mind I agree that you need a strong national security because it is important to the American people people born here people that immigrated here legally I think the problem is our execution okay don't I understand like living in Texas on my left most of my life I totally understand what you mean by we need a physical barrier between them and us and that's understandable like you don't know who's over there you need to assert that America is number one you serve your country this is like we need to protect our home about America number one I just think that a nation needs yeah I disagree with that no I agree with that I understand where you're coming from that no I just think the idea that a wall will protect that it's not exactly the most meaningful way of doing it I think it's more of a band-aid to a much greater problem that's our immigration system that currently okay because it's extremely difficult to immigrate if you come from Mexico and it's extremely difficult to get refugee status and seek asylum in the US so even though because the big problem is order our southern borders the prop no one's like oh no we need a Canadian border like no one's afraid of you know why that is out of here because we don't have it they don't have as much a high crime rate it's not as violent no we don't have a problem of illegal immigration yeah but I think a big part you mentioned some numbers earlier I couldn't really hear comes in behind sure about how people get here most people do not cross the border physically on foot like that's not the main way most people overstay their visas they come here on planes not true okay it's not 42% or overstayed visas okay okay and the other arrests yeah across the border I mean enter illegally I couldn't care less why does that matter I think the biggest part for that would be the refugee status people that are seeking asylum and that they are just so desperate that they don't have a choice okay are you aware but classifies hearing for your life correct no okay what is it you have to be demonstrably oppressed typically under a regime were systematically oppressing you for your faith or race or creed and if you look at international law it's the nearest nation that could possibly accept refugees is required to under those laws but none of which would have apply of course - no no no not like cartel victims - yeah so they would not apply for that no they wouldn't qualify as a refugee status and certainly not a caravan coming from Honduras because they country yeah yeah so what do we currently have in place as far as I understand we have a fence it is a small fence it does not cover the entire border yeah there's about seven 800 miles of border that are completely under that and why due to inactive politicians for a long time levin enforce the laws that we have in the book and have erected the defence wall whatever you want to call it yeah and by the way I want to make sure that you really it's not just about the wall I've supported all the other comprehensive forms of immigration but let me ask you this do we both agree that we need to enforce we need to know who's here legally yeah okay and do we both agree that we need strong borders another country okay okay execution is where we differ because you were saying asylum seekers and you were kind of talking about which unity people or not definitely agree come through legally but when push comes to pool I can totally understand where they're coming from I don't think that those are the people that would become down food or those will be the people that come from all the people that we're trying to keep out so you meet you think that I don't think refugees asylum seekers will be kept out because the people that are most strongly would you mean like Christians in Syria I will hear to be talking about more or less I mean not specifically them because there's no right well that's a big problem with you know we don't you're a big country and we're not necessarily just protected by the ocean in a very small border but we're talking about refugees that would qualify like a Christian in Syria okay Christians in Syria no one's helped them by the way yeah yeah well how are you aware because I do keep up a little bit with that I was thinking but with like as a Jew keep up with the Jewish situation in the Middle East and their immigration problems sure yeah so you're where the Wold work Israel erecting the wall and eliminated 99% of illegal immigration when I was curious how are you aware that this isn't a gotcha that specifically Christian refugees have been taken that's 20 refugees have been taking yeah they're the most targeted minority in Syria right now are they not yes yeah because it's the Muslim majority country right yeah but less than one percent of the refugees accepted for Christian really mm-hmm yeah they would be asylum seekers they would be refugees because you're burned in a cage if you're a Christian yeah and I would agree in taking those people in but is it yeah isn't it a little bit odd that less than some people the number is under point five percent of the refugees who are taking in more Christians mainly you know more aged Muslim males were taken it interesting I don't think that would be who that that shouldn't be who we're aiming to like save if they're will they be the refugees not someone in a Honduran Caravan so how do we disagree on execution how would you you agree that we need to enforce our current immigration laws that we need a strong border I think that system is very very weak in that we don't it's not staffed enough there's not enough money going to immigration to take because it's backed up like years and years and it's very difficult to immigrate here illegally so if you are in a bind to say your uncle is about to get murdered by the Mexican drug cartels you're desperate and you look at this situation that you don't have the ability to come here on your own or at least they have the thought process that they can't because it's so difficult and there's no there's no like fast way to do it I think we definitely need to navigate instead of putting so much funding into a wall like I can understand a fence that's fine like the twenty billion dollar wall is where it's pushing it why I don't understand the difference for the fence in a wall the problem is either one is racist and one it's okay it's still a drop in the bucket and the fence is not that much cheaper but okay how much is the difference you know well the most generous estimates have a wall at about twenty billion dollars and really right now what they're talking about is five billion dollars people on it but Democrats have already agreed to one point something big in my rounding and of course they supported building some kind of a barrier for a very long time so um why not just build the most effective barrier possible but if we just said okay like Donald Trump my barrier can be partially fenced partially wall depending on the topography you okay I think so I just think that's the idea I think the imposition beyond the wall I think it should be maybe I can understand like it peace of mind I totally get that there's a fence between me and the bad guys that's fine but I think we should instead of putting all of the money to twenty billion or the five billion or the one point six whatever it's not all the money it's very very little or annual budget is four trillion yeah it's you so but I think by doing that we're neglecting the fact that we do have a broken system for immigration yeah we do need to support but the plan is actually to start enforcing those laws that haven't been informed okay that's a big part of the comprehensive plan that Donald Trump is putting forward in fact enforcing laws that were put on the books from rock obama soap seems to me like you would support a wall a barrier friends but let's say a hybrid wall fence whatever works if we also crack down on those overstay visas if we deported people who are here illegally yeah I I agree with that okay good okay so we're on the same page on that aspect but I think that the conversation isn't about immigration anymore it's a it's about or not the immigration system it's about keep the bad guys out they're gonna come get us and they're gonna steal our women and rape everyone that's that's a part of the immigration problem is keeping people out mm-hmm but it's the biggest issue of course that's the only way to stop it it's not the biggest issue is that the most scary issue because I think the most depending on how much fear you can bring into the people it depends on how much they'll care about this aspect this is kind of what I've talked about before of reversed Nirvana fallacy we're gonna say well something needs to be done we need some kind of a barrier we need to enforce the laws that we have we need to deport people who are here illegally but because it's created some sort of ethnocentrism among some people I really haven't seen it I've never met a Republican who says the wall needs to keep brown people out the house people just say we need to stop the problem of illegal immigration especially that was costing hundreds we lost billion dollars the taxpayer tonight where do we disagree it seems like as far solutions you would do all of those things you just maybe don't like the messaging which the media is kind of put out there they're definitely the fear-mongering is a problem for me among media and then I think what's going on with the government right now with the government shutdown is extremely childish I think compromises what this country was founded on and we definitely need to make a compromise to this yeah who would you hold responsible for not making a compromise right now I think they're both responsible that's fair yeah like I totally I don't agree with Donald Trump for saying yeah that's fine and then totally turning around like three days later and being like we're shutting the government down this is over but also I see the Dimmick Democrats aren't entirely and they're against something that they supported when is Barack Obama they were was Donald Trump yeah and now he's even made some compromises right he said okay we'll extend daca three years right now what we saw this problem so we can get the government rolling I think that the just stubborn like head-butting in the government right now is absolutely ridiculous but if he's made some compromises and they said no no compromise yeah I would say I would are I think maybe we disagree but I would argue they're more responsible and those concessions have been made so I guess my issues it doesn't say we disagree on policy at all no we disagree on what needs to be done okay so what do you think needs to be done forgive me I'm just so final thoughts if you don't mind no problem I think we should instead of putting all this money into the wall I think we should put it into our immigration system to try and better the method by which people get you illegally because right now the system is very clunky very long it's strenuous there's not staffed enough not enough money going in I think we need to take care of getting people here legally and then the illegal stuff stop making it such a fear-mongering event of oh that's emotion we're talking about we need to stop the illegal immigration yes but I think the fear-mongering needs to go away I think we need to talk about facts I like your numbers I think it's very important to have numbers here's a number that you might consider fear-mongering illegal immigrants commit crime disproportionately okay so it's completely accurate to say that it's it's a much tougher spilled pill to swallow to by the way if someone rapes or killed and the a no business being in this country in the first place if that were your sister or your mother or I don't know your brother by a cartel being shut up you probably feel like man that guy had no business thing you're in the first place and we even do anything sure we should fix the broken system right now as far as work visas or being overstayed people will always break the law yeah but you're saying we shouldn't be spending all this money it's a drop in the bucket we are talking about a very small amount of money to stop the people coming here illegally at that point we can fix the current system and seems on the books one can't happen without the other I think I would be more okay with the wall if we took the money from say something that's like defense we have a ton of money going into defense if we were to take money put more money laud into immigration that I think I would be more okay with the wall and more spending money on a wall and less of a like fence okay but what about getting it and your wealth from like the welfare program so we have I don't I think it's more important the national defense as someone who benefits from it yes but I am a biased opinion that is a bias something extremely do you think that welfare is a legitimate role of government compared to national defense um I can see why other people don't think it is but I personally think is I think it's very important for a government to take care of its citizens constitutionally can you make an argument that national defense no I think okay so it's more reliable well we also understand then adds to the a great problem we have with a leave integration right the reason I say that is okay yeah but they're possible they're benefiting from the way bears game in a way that hurts American taxpayers both American taxpayers who are using welfare and not using welfare by the way and I think that's a big difference a lot of people don't touch on when we talk about being a nation of immigrants which I appreciate you didn't bring up so we're a nation of immigrants delineate we both are an illegal immigration yeah they were my there's no well Thursday yeah but right now you have people who can enter here completely illegally in heaven and they're enticed to do so because of a welfare state okay so I think we're gonna take money from anything not take it from a completely legitimate role of government which is national defense you can argue that a border is actually it's a significant part of National Defense take it from the welfare state that is enticing them that is attracting them to begin with you put that into the wallet but you're also hurting that legal Americans that have been here and benefit from it and need it just to get by stuff like that they're being hurt more by people coming here illegally being take it from the defense then like you said it is a national difference thing so instead of putting it directly into the army take it and put it in an immigration and or dirty so your so your fiscal conservative know what does it matter presenting a five million for a while you saying what we have to sounds like you just want to take money from national defense no but I think then who cares that we spend five billion in the world if you're not personal conservative we spend that's the drop in the bucket compared to the welfare program okay fiscal conservative who's Pro welfare yes okay so some of those things are little little little juxtapose yeah I think but I think we found some common ground you came and you seem like you were a little a little bit hot-headed like you thought did you say no balls I'm gonna say you just got misgendered yeah that's right off the bat that's pretty [Music] but I no offense if you don't actually have balls I do disagree well see I don't really disagree with the fact that we need enforce our laws okay of course we do need enforce our laws but my problem with the wall is just isn't there a simpler solution to this broader problem someone told me before that the reason why it's being built oh I'm sorry no okay the reason why I keep bringing it in because you're pulling away I'm not gonna hit you up it's on okay somebody told me that the reason why is to stop illegal immigration but the fact is is that most illegal immigration is from expired visas yeah so wouldn't it just be a simpler way to just keep track keep tabs on people who have visas from overseas and just keep a look at them instead of creating a five billion dollar wall that's gonna require maintenance yeah and that's my well I appreciate where you're coming from with that this is where we kind of run into a common issue with them often on college campuses so how confident are you that the majority of illegal immigrants are just overstayed visas I'm gonna say at least a good eighty percent eighty percent confident eighty percent of them under eight eighty percent of them yeah I'm very confident it's 40 to 42 it's forty two percent which means less than half okay which means the majority of the illegal immigrants are crossing through the border are unfettered but how about this what about doing both um okay I'd be down for both but my problem with the wall is it's too expensive wouldn't it just be easier to create more checkpoints something like that so how would you create checkpoints I mean it would start to be an infrastructure project but I'm song about the border you mean yeah I'm just saying we don't need an entire concrete wall to do that with the concrete wall you don't have like nothing's gonna stop somebody from like chiseling away at the wall but someone at sitting at like a desk watching the border they're probably gonna like you know be able to see yeah well you know that's all a part of the immigration plan that that President Trump is proposing and it's certainly something I think we find common ground there that we both think we need more than just a wall yeah or just offense whatever want to call you know I'm not necessarily talking about a concrete wall along the whole border I agree with you I would actually disagree with one point you said it'd be about five billion the most liberal estimates in the wall it would cost about twenty billion plus twenty twenty billion plus so I'm giving you more than right that sounds expensive and I would say that yeah obviously I'm a fiscal conservative I don't want to waste taxpayer dollars I assume that you're probably lining up on the same side of the coin there but how much do you think illegal immigrants cost the American taxpayers every year you've got to be more concise on that just saying how much do illegal immigrants cost that that's encompassing a lot of things you have to say using social services abusing the health care system public education using services that they're not necessarily paying for because I don't pay taxes um how much do you think they burden the american tax you and me yeah the american taxpayer you IIIi don't think I'd be able to give a informed and that's not a trick question the whole purpose of this I hope I hope you feel it's been respectful it's not to do gotcha but I think a lot of people aren't really informing this issue illegal immigrants cost on average the American tax one hundred and sixteen billion dollars a year mmm so even if you take those liberal estimates you becae you said five I said well let's even go with twenty billion dollars to build a wall if you look at the the investment reward ratio there are a hundred and sixteen billion dollars to the taxpayers year twenty billion dollars is kind of a drop in the bucket but as you said forty two percent are on x-bar visas forty two percent are net expired visas so yeah we're getting close to sixty percent are coming through yeah wall would help with that and then of course cracking down on on visas that have been overstating Donald Trump has talked about that and definitely wants to heighten security and enforce the laws that we have in the book so a lot of laws that we have haven't really been enforced as it relates to visas so uh why don't we do both hmm both the wall both the wall are we still talking at physical wall yeah I've got to say I think that they're better I still think that there are better options like the checkpoint issue I still think that checkpoints would be proposing both both yeah there'll be both it's not gonna be a completely unprotected wall right now you have hundreds of miles of completely unprotected border border between the United States and Mexico and so we're talking about is putting up a wall a fence a barrier as well as having security as well as also enhancing cybersecurity cracking down on visas it's not just about a wall you know I'm sure it was someone in college you know it's kind of simplistic as that so if we do all of that we have a wall we have those checkpoints we have people there monitoring the wall and we know that it would cost twenty billion dollars let's say and save the American taxpayers 116 billion dollars going forward once we solve the problem would you be okay with doing all the above wall plus checkpoints wall plus checkpoints and dealing with the the visa issue yeah well I I still do think that one of the problems the wall is that a lot of the area onto the border isn't at all private property when that all have to be taken from Americans you're done eminent domain yeah yeah well here's what we are talking about and I understand your concern there we were talking about an issue of national security right and putting a ball off our pop the ball up putting a wall up around our national border is either important or it's not I mean I think we both agreed here that we need to do something about illegal immigration it sounds to me like you're not for open borders okay good so we find common ground there sounds mean like we both agree the overstaying visas are a problem mm-hmm so it sounds to me like we also both agree we need to stop the influx of illegal immigrants right now yeah so if you say well wouldn't a ball will all be on private property well wouldn't we need checkpoints let me ask you this this is kind of where I think we we we find yourself at a crossroads it's a bit of a reverse Nirvana fallacy where it's well it wouldn't really work entirely so let me ask us what do you think we should do if not a wall with heightened border security how do we solve the problem ah okay this is kind of a joke my friend once told me if we had if you had one person making $15 an hour just like on a really high chair just watching everybody for every 10 miles mm-hmm you could pay that five billion dollars proposed that could run that program for 54 years now that's my entire point why don't we just have checkpoints while he's thrown along with some other sort for mysterious why do you say why do you preface your preset position there your kind of argument with this is kind of a joke is it a joke because then it sounds like you were saying that's something we should do well I'm saying that the really high chair thing as a joke you know it'd be kind of impractical to have just some dude on like a hundred foot chair I think that's kind of like a gross misunderstanding okay but I think if we had some some form of modern of the border I'm not talking about a wall but you know with today's technology you can have drones you can have surveillance you can have I know I appreciate you guys sticking it out I know it's raining yeah sorry we didn't bring umbrellas for all you can have these sorts of there ways to do the wall there ways to Mar the border they're wasted okay so let's go with kind of your your I guess solution there let's ignore the high chair but you said having even just someone being paid $15 an hour at the border yeah right monitoring it okay are you sort of are you privy to what goes on with the Mexican drug cartels pretty brutal people right I'm aware and criminals who cross over the border illegally yeah not the friendliest Bunch mm-hmm first off where are you going to find someone to stop those people for $15 an hour okay and how do you equip them to stop those people well I'm a believer in the legal system I just think that just having somebody monitoring them having the evidence as they walk in yeah so you would rather just have someone at $15 now or watch them walk in illegally and then deal with that problem afterward we'll deal with that problem quickly but we let the local police departments deal with it okay so now we're burdening the cost to local police departments yes okay as opposed to a federal issue now we're going to local police departments but we run into the issue like we see now sanctuary cities where we have cities you know in the United States I'm sure you're familiar with them you can't deport not only illegal immigrants but a little immigrants who have committed subsequent crimes beyond coming to the country illegally why should we let these people in why don't we stop them before they come in you do realize again that's going to add to the tax burden like we're talking about it doesn't seem very realistic well as I said before we're just gathering everything so that's all I'm saying gather evidence I'm not saying that I did say originally that the Police Department should detain I'm not saying that the local city should drop charges maybe we should get the federal government after they've come into the country illegally yes that's a much lengthier and costlier process than stopping them from coming in here not to mention the fact that they don't have the right to be here in the first place what's the it's really hard to measure because again they're off the books we're not here legally it's in the millions Millions yeah yes you can see find some sites that say it's only five million you can find some sites that say it's up to 20 million so it's hard to measure how much does it cost for a federal federal court to have a federal court look at the issue well depends you're talking about where it goes up to a Supreme Court you know something like the 9th Circuit Court just like a final Supreme Court it's actually more expensive for example to put someone to death today than it is just to take care of them the rest their lives in prison but I think we're getting so far off the beaten path here that's not our job and we shouldn't set up a system that allows for people to commit a crime and then retroactively Li administer justice and here's to something else I think you're not you're not thinking of here you know the issue that we talked about like daca anchor babies dreamers the issue there is the parents have committed a crime they brought their children here illegally or they came here illegally and got pregnant or they were pregnant when they migrated here illegally and after that because they've committed a crime if we have to deport them as criminals they are separate from the children they committed the crime right these incidents wouldn't occur if we secured the border in the first place so you're actually talking about adding to these incidents I don't think it's very compassionate because you'd be separating families at that point you'd be putting them in different prisons it seems to me that we both agree there needs to be some kind of an immigration plan which I appreciate a lot of people I'm sure we'll sit down and talk about open borders and how a wall is mean or racist and you didn't do that I actually think that simply having a barrier cracking down on visas making sure that we know who is in this country and of course deporting people who are here illegally who are committing crimes at the very least is a more feasible program and I hope that maybe we found some common ground there and maybe we agree on some of that no much man I appreciate it go make fun of your Bhalla friend really quickly if you enjoy these authentic unedited types of conversations do you think of supporting the program at ladder with better calm slash mug Club you get access to the Daily Show as well as a catalogue of other shows along with this hand etched girthy mug and of course you support the program as that's the only way to make it sustainable because uh tick overlords don't like us here we go they're more than welcome to change the change my mind it's not necessary that I disagree I guess with the concept of border security I just think the wall is a wasteful sim in like that our taxes paper Wars so like I would believe in using 21st century technology to enforce a border like what Republican Wilford suggested using you know drones using some of the size and the technology that Israel has to detect tunnels which would prevent a lot of the I guess more dangerous like criminals that are trying to cross the border you know the drugs guns human smuggling and I believe that be more of a I guess permanent solution rather than a temporary one that be symbolic and like I I agree I'm whether you agree with like more of a comprehensive reform of immigration yes your supporter because we do have a lot of visa overstay people coming through the waters of the Gulf of Mexico to the southern states down there in Florida so I mean I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think it's a very temporary it's a very like a temporary American type of solution where we don't go for the long term immediately we're always going through the temporary solution I think America doesn't go for the long-term solution not with all our decisions now with all our decisions but I'd say you know the country that went from being oppressed one century go into a new land only to become the world's greatest superpower and only superpower the next that's kind of long ball it is very long Bowl but it was it might come from Canada we just kissed the ring of the the royalty so crude yeah part of the Commonwealth yes like we have her on our coins it's very silly but I do I do appreciate that we both find common ground here you doFull review >>