Ep. 187 - Why Won’t Anyone Talk About The Persecuted Christians?
01:01 "... they always talk about Islamophobia ..."
03:57 "... stopped by to talk about the Christian ..."

Like this video? For more Ben Shapiro and Daily Wire content, subscribe to this channel and the Ben Shapiro YouTube channel youtube.com/c/benshapiro and ring the bell for notifications so you never miss a story!a study undertaken this year shows that the persecution and mass murder of Christians around the world is worse today than at any time in history and Western governments are failing not only to stop it but even to acknowledge it father George Rutter has just inaugurated the first shrine in the world dedicated to persecuted Christians at his church which is the same church where I weds whittlin ELISA just a month ago the church of st. Michael in Hell's Kitchen we will discuss the totally silenced Christians plight then the mailbag I'm Michael Knowles and this is the Michael Noel's show [Music] this is gonna be very politically incorrect show not politically correct it is a really strange thing right now this study even I didn't realize it and I've been kind of tuned into these issues of Christian persecution in the Middle East and around the world it's right now Christians in the world are the most persecuted faith group that there is you wouldn't know that if you talk to people in America or in Europe they always talk about Islamophobia which Andrew Clavin I believe once defined as the irrational fear of having your head cut off that's not politically correct but that's all you hear about you don't hear about the Christians it's silence we're talking about how we need to bring Muslim migrants of all we have to do is bring the Muslim migrants over we bring hardly any Christian refugees over and the Christian refugees are the ones who are being utterly decimated by Muslim militants throughout the Middle East and elsewhere according to this study by aid to the church in need they examined Christians in China Egypt Eritrea India Iran Iraq Nigeria North Korea Pakistan Saudi Arabia Sudan Syria and Turkey only Saudi Arabia has not gotten significantly worse for Christians over the last few years and that's only because it can't really get much worse you know it's like they're it's not you know a thriving metropolis of Christians the Christians have been almost entirely wiped out of Iraq and Syria we know we had G somehow on the show the North Korean defector just a week or two ago and he talked about how if you were said to be a Christian in North Korea you will be executed publicly and on the spot no questions asked gun pulled out shoot you right in the head you know this is a weird thing and especially in the United States and in Europe I think we have this sense now especially lefties here have this sense that Oh a rock and Syria those are those are for Muslim people that's not the Christians aren't supposed to be there those aren't for Christian people but of course Syria was a the home of Christianity for so long and all of not all of them but many of the early popes came out of syria peter is from Bethsaida Paul had his conversion he they you know we had the scales over his eyes knocked off his knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus or knocked Office as he's going up to Damascus that's not in that's not in you know Rome that's not in tours that's not in England that's in Syria but we have this this idea that you know that's for the Muslims that's for the Muslim people all over the Middle East and Africa the there was some Samaria q shion's of Christians torture crucifixion all of these things not politically correct to say but that's why we brought on my priest and good friend father George Rutner father rut ler is how do you even introduce this guy a singular figure in my reversion to Christianity he is the pastor of the Church of st. Michael in New York he's the author of I think 700,000 books at this point he's a boxer he's a painter he's a terrific painter he plays piano plays violin he you know he's just a true renaissance man I asked him one time he was very kind to display my political tome reasons to vote for Democrats a comprehensive guide in his rectory in New York and father rut ler I asked him I said how do you do all of this how do you host TV shows and write your columns all the time to write books and do that and then and he looked at me he said don't sleep it's fair enough answer I have to take that advice he stopped by to talk about the Christian persecution and as excuse me as happens with him the conversation wandered a bit without further ado here is father mother father mother thank you so much for being here delighted to do it father allure the last time I saw you you were marrying me off right well it was a wonderful day I really really enjoyed it I estimate roughly I've had about 800 weddings and they each one is like like the first one I there's a lot of work involved and people don't realize that but it's a great joy to me you know it was so lovely and it was so I was so pleased that you didn't that we did it at the Church of st. Michael and I know some of the viewers of the show I've seen photos that I've been posting of it and it occurs to me right before I got married I'm all nervous I'm standing in the rectory I actually saw this shrine the first shrine in the world dedicated to the persecution of Christians and it it shocks me in two ways one that there are so many persecuted Christians you know and that nobody is really talking about this and the other that it's the first shrine in the world dedicated to them how did how did it come about and why is nobody caring about the persecuted Christians or first of all I have a good friend and priest from England although he is actually a priest working and coordinated as we say in Canada on it is he's and inscribed in a diocese in in Vermont but he's been on leave now to go and work with the Christian Emma grace in in Iraq he works out of England but he's back and forth to Iraqi is taking some some doctor documentary films travel is stunning the historic centralized looks like Hiroshima after the bomb we don't see much of that so he is raising consciousness he he's organized a group called the Nazarene org in a as a en and they use the letter n the Arabic letter the Noom it's called Newman Arabic alphabet Nazarene because the Muslim countries will not allow the use of the word Christian so they they call Christians Nazarenes Jesus was Nazareth and these little badges is to raise consciousness it's sort of like you know the a lot of people in the Second World War deliberately wore yellow stars to show their empathy for the persecuted direct power Jews and the icon we're talking about was done by an Iraqi from the area of our Deen which are in Arabic means or Aramaic they speak Aramaic which was the language our Lord spoke means Eden his house and their property and everything were confiscated by the ISIS so here to take his family in exile to Lebanon and the icon shows the the Virgin Mary dressed as an Iraqi bride the second question is why has there been such little publicity well first of all is politically incorrect because the residence is a Western culture on the whole I think is very threatened by Islam doesn't understand Islam a lot of people I think of a lot of people of naive left-wing sympathies are following replicating the same mistake that was made in the 1930s by a lot of the Western intelligentsia who thought well mmm Hitler is a kind of crackpot but at least he's anti-bolshevik so the enemy of my enemy is my friend and so they looked the other way about her towards the Nazi atrocities Kristallnacht they thought that would that led to the concentration cares we have to remember that a lot a lot of the Western media including the New York Times ignored all the evidence on the concentration camps there was a very noble Polish Catholic layman professor Yan Karski who will eventually went into exile he documented the concentration camps was going on he came to the West he went to London they didn't want to hear about it in Whitehall he went to Washington he had an hour with Franklin Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt ignored him polite but didn't want to hear this he met with Felix Frankfurter who was the only Jewish members the Supreme Court who just was angry were he and he walked around the room and said you know he couldn't believe it and later on he said I didn't call Koski a liar I just said that I couldn't believe him well that's what these people are doing a lot of these people are doing today because to admit what's going on is to admit the with this long we're dealing with something different from what Western bourgeois minds think is religion you know we so often hear that these extremists are unrepresentative of the Quran well read the Quran it's right there it's not the extremists it's the more moderate Muslims god bless them who want really to integrate into us in society we got virtues of judeo-christian society there they're the they're the eccentric militant Islam represents the authentic interpretation of the Quran and that's very politically incorrect to say but it's a mm it's a fact and to acknowledge that what's going on in the Middle East where you have countries with the Christian populations of evaporating right in Bethlehem everybody's probably the the population the Christian population they're in the birthplace of Christ vanishing people do not want to admit it and I think it's just like just as in the 1930s you had people you know being giving the pass to the now ZZZ because they thought that they did Hitler and Stalin could fight it out among between themselves where they didn't we had there he had the Ribbentrop pact which upset the leftists in the West it's so today we have people thinking that well yeah the bullroar liberal progressives who are anti judeo-christian civilization yeah they wouldn't put it that way but they are the way they wonder who this fragment the whole judeo-christian moral structure they'll say well alright Islam these people are kind of nutty but they'll bring down judeo-christian society and I said well again the enemy of my enemies of my friend but as with letting giving a hit or a pass you don't understand when you do that what it is Phyllis you are unleashing on the world of course that you know it's interesting that you you mentioned that this this long-standing conflict between Islam and the West Hilaire Belloc the great Catholic writer wrote about this in the 1930s you said read a low right now things are going alright but within half a century or so Islam may start rising up against the West again and we're going to have to deal with it and I saw there was a study by aid to the church in need and the McLaughlin and Associates which showed that among American Catholics the persecution of Christians in the Middle East and elsewhere ranks the lowest among their list of concerns and global priorities ranking higher or poverty which I believe will always be with us it's written a book somewhere and a climate change climate change is a greater priority and I think it speaks to what you're talking about there has been an ideological displacement or assault on judeo-christian morality and Western civilization and that ideological assault is replacing it you saw Dianne Feinstein grilling a judge Amy Kony Barrett and she said you know I'm worried because the dogma lives loudly within you there does seem to be a real battle here I you you saw this firsthand you you're in New York City you've been there you were an eyewitness to the September 11th terrorist attacks you were down there at the Trade Center has the culture moved in any sort of better direction in the country or are we just sliding toward further decay no no I don't I don't think I don't think it has are you know the difference between the theological virtue of Hope which is trusting in God and the humanistic quality of optimism optimism is just wishing things will be well hope means knowing things will go well if we trust in God in a long time yes I say to my friends you know this our culture is very decadent but as an historian I would say we can hopefully say that maybe in two or three hundred years things will get better but but that's unless you intend to live that long that's not so much of a consolation I belong to part Scottish I belong to some Scottish societies of the Scottish tend to be you some of them generalization a little doer little surly yeah yeah but the difference between a Scottish pessimist and this cottage option is in a Scottish pessimist would will say Oh things couldn't be any worse than they are now and if Scots optimist says oh yes they can but I think your people are like they do it like the the ostrich with his head in this air and they're they don't want to admit what's going on Europe is learning you're visiting but the hard way I think that's the heroic cultures where I think of Poland yeah and and Hungary perhaps Croatia some of the those those countries that have suffered so vividly all through history but most dramatically in president they know what they are dealing with others are comfortable and the you know as a matter of fact you know the statistics was of the all the heads of the EU countries I think all the heads of the UN countries at least six of them are childless Wow so you know we have demagogues and I always I know that when politicians say we're doing this for our children stop it that's that's demagoguery but in Europe it's worse because they don't have any children to worry about yeah we're just doing it for ourselves they love a socialist economy because it's their day they can pass the debt on it because they have here they're their own they don't have children inherit that dad that's going to the burden is going to be on the body politic so can be labor the image of the decline and fall wrong part the noble Roman Republic was transformed and into the Imperium alright you had a noble Emperor's like Augustus later are maybe constantly but most of them you know they were they were like Bill Clinton on a bad day and and so what happened what happened they didn't want they got soft they couldn't fight and then you heard the gossip is aghast vandals the Huns listened to their names the Vandals and the Huns that gives you a good doesn't sound exactly the touch it's not exactly the order of the Cincinnati and but they didn't want to admit and the other people were well-trained and they they could find a soft spot and and they moved in and I think that's the way we are today or we have just you know when you have a whole culture grow is it or miss shaping this the younger culture when you have their whole culture page basically their their fondest memories of Woodstock and now there are the tenured professors and deans and presidents the universities they've misformed the whole generation so when our election goes contrary to what they thought it would be what they were taught it would told it was going to be in the bubble in which they live what happens they have to go into psychiatric treatment safe spaces and all that that's like coloring books and puppies yeah but when the Barbarian invades there are no say that is a fearful warning certainly and it is true I saw this among my friends who were still in graduate school in college and the campuses erupted they were so shocked and horrified when president from one and there is this glimmer of light I hope in so much as there has been deregulation there has been protection of religious freedom of individual liberty and and there are all of these judges this has been the great fight all of last week are the judges who are not only or textualist and originalist and lean conservative but dare I say they're all Catholic and this did actually raise a question to me when you look back at American history I think it was Arthur Schlessinger said that anti-catholicism is the deepest bias in American history and yet the leaders of the conservative movement have all been Catholic it seems are largely Catholic you had the Russell Kirk you had a member of your own flock Bill Buckley and you have all of the judges on the Supreme Court why is that why does Catholicism seem to play some role in American conservatism well mmm well because Catholicism is rooted in pardon really technical language a realist epistemology that is to say they have concrete truths is there this contradicts relativism subjectivism the paramount definer of that philosophy was Thomas Aquinas and I've noticed that justice gorsh arch and now the nominee Cavanaugh both went to the same church with prep school now I am NOT going to risk my life in defense of the church let's go ahead my great disagreements were fair not to interrupt but you know the difference between the Jesuits and Dominicans don't you the difference of course is that they were both Spanish orders they were both founded to combat heresy the Dominicans to combat the Alba Jensen's the Jesuits to combat the Protestants and when was the last time you ever heard of an Albertan see and bear in mind there's a good example or talking about about culture ISM but agreed about the Alba Jerseyans what they were doing they would have destroyed Western civilization people put down their there they were put down harshly but if they handle didn't destroyed we wouldn't be here today it's as simple as that it's like you know if the holy roman if if you didn't have andrea doria and one Wroblewski and these curved grater tires this is combating the Islamic a Charles Martel even before that combating the Islamic invasion if you're we would not be here today but you know I think the Jesuits a bit like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead when she was good she was very very good when she was bad she was horrid well it's very very they're very very good carrots but I don't know if I'm not sure they're a dying breed or not a pot there there is this respect for the four classical Aristotelian toniest reality and that's lost in a subjective culture which is disintegrating it by its own lack of thousands of important so if you live in a subjective culture when truth is whatever you want it to be what happens you you know a boy can go into a girls locker room and say that he's a girl fine why is why is this being promoted I I have to say I I live in New York City I see millions of people here I live on 34th Street which is the craziest Street in the universe I have never encountered a transgendered maybe there's so well cause better sized that recognize it but why it's such a minut percentage of the population why is this being promoted why is this the national debate yes simply because it's another barb in judeo-christian the judeo-christian moral structure the retired head of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins is not a witch doctor he has said the telling a child a boy that he could be a girl or is his child abuse this is a scientific fact in the same way abortion is anti-scientific it denies the reality of the humanity of the unruly human life of the unborn but now I just mentioned that Casey decision in Pennsylvania that being free means being able to define your own concept of livered liberty and the meaning of the mystery of life yeah that sounds like some cheap opera of mystery of life and wonderful poet Anthony Kennedy yeah yeah my beloved friend Justice Scalia really devastated that justifies a mockery of it but now who wrote those words Justice Kennedy who's a Catholic so just because of our garlic doesn't mean that they're going to be heirs or they may be heirs but doesn't mean that they continue to subscribe to a realist philosophy of the moral order I mean Edward Kennedy claimed to be a Catholic go down the list in fact it's almost an indictment of politicians to say when they loudly profess that their calves like there is something wrong with them you have to wonder what's really going on yeah so there's no great consolation there we have an interesting phenomenon now whereby a lot of the evangelicals have been promoting is the Catholic Norman nominees for this Supreme Court because they say but there's a common bond there theologically their problem but there's a common bond layer in their belief and the integrity of Scripture defying revelation an objective objective morality but you have some you can't a lot of Catholics who are Catholics the name only the same thing we have our abuser Jewish here in name only I mean isn't mrs. Ginsburg oh yes Elena Kagan yeah but I wouldn't like to have her talk to the chief rabbi about her stance are on on moral issues but it's also interesting that the media narrow just Merck recognizes that the Catholic probably the last voice of this of realism moral realism that's why it has to be brought out here you don't you don't hear people they'll say well why are there so many Catholics on the Supreme Court now is that what would happen if somebody said why are there so many Jews on the Supreme Court the use of over-represented in terms of percentage of population god bless them when somebody says that I did as a legitimately an odor of anti-semitism there but there's the twist with Jew calculate products whatever there should not be a test of religion and the only disappointment I had in that very nice woman good woman parrot parrot Coney Maron yeah judge Barrett Barrett she should have just said - that lady sine Stein yes these the set of tricks of California she should have just instead of trying to defend herself today I'm sorry but I am a constitutionalist and I will not be a subject to that religious test right right of course I you know and tell you Father rudder I'll have to let you go because I've taken up too much of your time already but hearing you say that it really makes me think that the dogma lives loudly within you it really makes me echo the Senate tricks from California's sentiments I don't know the best way to handle some of these people is just to mock them we have false prophet the Devils the Prince of Lies and what withers him is to mock him if we take him too seriously then we give him strength but I'm told I am told now that there are coffee cups oh let's say the dogma lives with me that's a good to get it on a t-shirt or something you know it's I must say I always I listen to your homilies when I'm not in New York and I can't go to the Church of st. Michael and people can listen to them like a podcast which I recommend that everybody and they can get your columns your weekly column from the Church of st. Michael and in crisis magazine by my last count you've written about 300 thousand books in your life is there any new book coming out where can people find more of your writing well actually this summer I have five coming out now for our other set if this was not my idea a group of businessmen gotta go and these are a collection of my past four columns over the last 15 20 years and they're in a box that leather barrel with silk ribbons and it and the advertisement I read to my astonishment celebrating the life and legacy of Father rattler it sounded like an obituary I'm glad to hear you're still still walking around and talking the only the only thing lacking was you know in lieu of flowers please send we're like yeah yeah and then Ignatius press is bringing out a collection of yeah of my essays but I'm a parish priest I'm here in the part of Manhattan called Hell's Kitchen which indicates something of the culture so I I only write these things obliquely my life prints today I said well I've got I heard confessions that's my that's that's my job but through the wonderful gift now of communications we can reach a lot of people well I hope at some point I can match your volume of output you know you have five books coming out this summer I had one book coming out in my entire life and it didn't have any words in it so maybe maybe I'll be able to to amplify my output well really that the the advantage of writing book without words is very hard to be sued for plagiarism I suppose for the wrong guy I can tell you that I I thought I thought about your own usually do an audio version of that with music by John Cage that'll be very nice perhaps you can you can conduct the arrangement of 433 by John Cage I did you know I I kid you not there was actually a guy who wrote an anti-trump blank book I said I use write liberally and it was another blank book called reasons to to respect Donald Trump or something like that and he threatened in the Washington Post to sue me for plagiarism to which I told him I stole nothing I promise you sir I stole nothing father Rutter I have taken up all of your time I'm sure there there are many masses to say and confessions to give on in Hell's Kitchen so I'll let you go we'll have to have you back because you are famous on this program I I quote and I'll use the word borrow really you know is it the word is steal all of your insights regularly so we'll have to bring you back to so that you can give them directly well hello to everybody out on the wrong coast out in la-la land father other thank you so much for being here and we'll talk to you soon by phone or I'll see you in New York all right thank you all right we're gonna have to bring father brother back because I steal from him so regularly I so regularly maybe I'll say borrow lines from his columns and talking to him and listening to him so I'll have to bring him back and then you get the real thing you don't need to go through me and maybe I'll have him answer you know all my mailbag questions are always Catholic to some I'll bring them on instead of you know this kind of poultry lay Catholic giving you answers if you're on Facebook and YouTube I'm sorry we have a lot of mailbag to get to today and they're not all Catholic some of them are very important urgent public policy questions but if you're not on daily wire.com you can't ask questions in the mailbag and you can't keep watching you can only keep listening go to daily wired.com why well you get me you get the intro Clavin show you get the Ben Shapiro show you to ask questions in the mailbag you get to ask questions in the conversation know that matters this is the mark Duplass vintage today that I'm sipping on the mark Duplass 2018 it's really the wrong mmm oh that's good it's a young wine it's a new wine it's not hasn't it hasn't really aged for a while but something tells me it's going to age just fine go get your daily wire leftist to your stump we're gonna do a wacom we'll be right back with the mailbag alright let's get into the mailbag we are as usual tight on time so we'll just fly through the first question from Garrett who do you prefer Thomas Jefferson or Alexander Hamilton Alexander Hamilton it's a simple question I like them both I'm not disparaging Thomas Jefferson he's great were Americans because we have both Alexander Hamilton Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson but Hamilton's better he's the better one he's got the better story he's got the better thoughts he was more important and I love him he's great and and also you know when was the last time Thomas Jefferson got a popular glib and musical made about him huh I don't know I don't remember that from Kyle Michael what is this Alexander Pope quote about nature being art unknown today funny you should ask I do quote that a fair bit funny you should ask about that quote that quote and that the whole quote is nature is all nature is but art unknown to the all chance Direction which thou canst not see such that in the logic of the universe as it unfolds as there is Providence around us things that we seem think or coincidences might not be coincidences or there there might be more than coincidences and that I first read that on the cover of the first rut look I ever read which sort of introduced me to the guy it was pivotal in my reversion to Christianity from vague atheism and vague agnosticism and the funny thing about Pope is that his is these great lines he has wonderful little couplet couplets you know hope springs eternal in the human breast this sort of things but at the end of all of his poems there's just like grave heresy so he's a really good line by line and then poem by poem don't believe as much as as you would but that's a great great line I use it all the time and I do believe that that is certainly true next question from tan dear Michael in the current climate this might be a brave thing to ask and an even braver thing to answer but here goes isn't abortion which is also a natural selection type way to eliminate liberals from our society I still feel it's unequivocally murder and will continue to fight for their innocent lives but perhaps part of the left's problem is that they're ok with killing their progeny please just call me tan Thanks ok tan well alright so you're saying that it's murder and then you're saying but isn't that's not so bad is it I don't know to you that you're gonna go out and murder liberals are you gonna go and kill them a one of the arguments that really brought me over from supporting abortion to being pro-life was from a bioethicist I was having lunch with and I gave all those stupid freakonomics arguments for why abortions great and she said which of these arguments is not an argument to go kill ethnic minorities in the inner cities who are young men yikes that's tough so what do you think I mean yeah there is a sort of irony that these lefties who put all of their hope into politics seem to be killing off their progeny that but I know I don't think that's something we should celebrate you know for the left everything is about politics it's their God it's the God they worship we don't worship that God hopefully we've got other things going on so we don't want to kill them we don't want to see them killed you know hope springs eternal in the human breast so where there's life there's hope and we should try to bring them up and that way we'll we'll have more conservatives will be able to to convert them.i one time governor mitch Daniels I was talking to him and we asked this was in 2012 we said you know everything's looking so bleak is the west over I mean or how are we ever going to defeat the forces of leftism and he said well there are two ways to do it Michael you can either persuade them or you can out breed them and the latter is much more fun a good at good advice you know we got to be pro-life even if even if I suppose we could win more elections if we slaughtered all the lefties but I don't think that'd be a good idea from me either Michael a or Michelle I can't tell which one that is how do you feel the Bible addresses pacifism as a conservative I have been very curious about this because of passages like turn the other cheek thank you for your time and Veritas vos liberabit mmm I think there were too many pacifists in the church militant that's what I think I think CS Lewis spelled this out very well in an essay I think called why I'm not a pacifist but one should turn the other cheek of course this is a very abused line of Scripture abused in particular by the political left to turn the other cheek is a as a an act of moral defiance and moral dignity that when some man hits you or disrespect you or insults you he degrades himself and he degrades himself because you won't allow yourself to be degraded you will allow your flesh to be mortified and and for that suffering to sanctify you this is not a an instruction to let the cruel rape the earth that's not what our Lord is telling us to do so ses Lewis spells it out in a few different ways but if you a pacifism is pretty self-defeating if in this sort of lefty version of just be nice man I forget there was a great theologian who described most American churches and most American sermons and homilies is saying I would possibly suggest that you try to be nice y

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