Jesus: Behind The Music ft. Mark Joseph | The Michael Knowles Show Ep. 133
03:47 "... Jesus behind the music here is mark ..."
11:45 "... the old vh1 series behind the music if ..."
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Subscribe to our YT channel and leave a comment below!how did Christians shift pop music from sex drugs and rock and roll to themes of faith and devotion we will discuss with mark Joseph author of rock gets religion the battle for the soul of the devil's music then a caravan of over 1000 illegal aliens wants to invade our country and the MSM the mainstream media are steadfastly denying any problem China strikes back at UF's tariffs and finally hope for the future the children think of the children I'm Michael Knowles and this is the Michael Noel's show [Music] so much to get to today so much to get we both we've got to talk about Jesus behind the music that we've got to talk about you know the e true Hollywood story we've got to talk about this invasion that's happening that oh no it's okay no big deal no one's paying any attention to it there's a caravan of over a thousand people on its way to the US and all of the political implications for that China everyone is getting China wrong everyone's getting these tariffs wrong they're oversimplifying we'll go through what's actually happening and then of course hope for the future but before we do that we have to thank a sponsor and Ben told me this one's especially important to thank Ben said this one really has a lot to do with where the company is going in the future that would be a zip recruiter zip recruiter I don't know we put it right on my desk he said make sure you read this carefully maybe even try using the product myself zip recruiter the zip recruiter is a great option for employers and employees zip recruiter knew there was a smarter way than then what happened in the old days you know in the old days you'd put your resume on a job board and then it would just go and it would die there basically nothing would happen or you'd post a job you'd say hey we want to get some new employee and then you wouldn't hear from anybody zip recruiter built a platform to finds the right job candidates for you they learned what you are looking for identifies people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job they actually say hey bet you look like you'd be good for this job come over here like for instance Ben said they're really gonna say like hey you could do a podcast come right over here into the broom closet of the ben shapiro show so 80% of employers who post a job on zip recruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day the right candidates are out there a zip recruiter is how you find them right now my listeners can get zip recruiter for free you can try it for free that is right businesses of all sizes trust zip recruiter go to zip recruiter comm / MKS that is zip recruiter comm slash MKS zip recruiter comp slash MKS go there so that you can keep the lights on and keep me employed but when you go there don't take my job because I they're looking so don't just go there zip recruiter comm slash MKS the smartest way to hire so much to talk about I can't wait to get into all of this today because this is something that happens in politics is you get all these bud work buzzwords so they'll say well this isn't free trade or this is protectionism or this is this or that ISM ISM ISM and what's going on in China is much more complicated and it actually gives president Kofi Fei of shines him in a better light it puts them in a much better light we're trying to put these complex questions into very simple ideological categories will see what's going on there and I will I will defend president Kofi Fei in some ways on this tariff bill and then of course the giant invasion that nobody is talking about the imminent invasion of our country will shed some light where the mainstream media refused to do that but before we get to it we will bring on Hollywood producer Mark Joseph the author of rock gets religion the battle for the soul of the devil's music Hank Hill on the cartoon king of the hill famously observed that Christian rock doesn't make rock better it just makes Christianity worse we will get some perspective in that on this segment Jesus behind the music here is mark thank you for being here so as you write rock music was birthed in hedonism and in the 21st century it got overtaken by religion what changed well I I write in the book how rock and religion got off to a rocky start it's like a bad first date right remember remember that remember back in the old days right you know so rock begins first of all religious people and traditionalists there's so much so many things happening at the same time coming at them there's the Vietnam War there's the pill there's rock-and-roll there's Elvis as the stones so much social upheaval at one time and it was hard for them to sort out what is good what's not good what can we work with what can't we work with and the kind of knee-jerk reaction was well let's just burn records because we don't like though the influence this is having an art on our young people so we're born records we'll call it the devil's music we'll come up with these weird excuses like we heard these beats in the jungles of Africa when they were doing voodoo ceremonies like oh the craziest of you can imagine and so there's an overreaction to the power of rock and roll and it took a while for especially religious leaders more conservative figures to go oh wait a minute there's nothing inherently wrong with this music it's all about what you're singing and talking about and so that overreaction then leads to the formation of the Christian rock industry which is like a parallel universe so you have kind of normal music over here and then you have contemporary Christian music over here that's happening on a parallel track and that went on for about thirty years until what I talk about in the book is the mainstream ization of those artists so the kinds of artists that you didn't know growing up bands like artists like silk eggy and and DeGarmo and key and all these amazing artists that never really got heard because they were in this Christian music business what's happened today is there's been a radical change and the mainstream music business is actually full of a lot of very religious people people don't quite realize that people like Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and many others are actually kind of you know ordinary kind of church-going Americans in the case of Justin Bieber Canadians and these artists have really brought their influence to bear in the mainstream music business not off in the fridge what what is it precisely that did this because I remember I'm old enough to remember the time before Christian rock became basically the mainstream of pop music now you you suggest some possibilities in the book was it perhaps 9/11 that did this was it the Passion of the Christ as this mainstream obviously 100 percent Christian movie what events do you think pushed these religious undertones that had maybe always been around rock music or coming up from gospel and pushed it into the mainstream sure I talked about four big things in the book so the first thing is artists like a Justin Bieber is a great example in the past and a lot of this has to do with theology believe it or not but the way you believe and the things you believe in the way you look at the world really influences how you act and so we had a theology of separation back in the day which was what Christians would separate themselves from the world they would use kind of Bible verses out of context and say come me apart and be separate because the mainstream rock business is dirty we have to separate and form a Christian side of it you hear it in politics as well politics is dirty we should get out let's separate so that began to change and so Justin Bieber is actually a really good example because his mother is a very devout Christian woman and in the past Justin Bieber would have been guided to Nashville to sign with a Christian music label as the son of a very devout Christian woman and then you and I wouldn't have heard of Justin Bieber except for on the fringes of culture right he goes mainstream so that's how that's happened with dozens and dozens and dozens of artists the second one that's really significant is American Idol American Idol plays a significant role in this process because in the 60s 70s 80s and most the 90s basically our rock and pop stars are picked by ten white guys in Hollywood now you may think you're an Eagles fan and you discovered the Eagles in 1975 but you really didn't you only discovered that because a guy and in a gatekeeper in Hollywood discovered them for you and that's how you discovered them so there were these gatekeepers Clive Davis is one that I talked about in the book and let's just say that Clive Davis's values were a little bit different than your values probably more than Ben's values right and so certain people were getting chosen to be rock and pop stars because the gatekeepers approved of them so what and I give an example in the book there's a Christian pop star named Keith Green who became a Christian pop star but before that he actually auditioned for Clive Davis in New York in 1976 I believe it was didn't get the gig and so he had to go into Christian pop well American Idol who breaks up the entire paradigm of decline Davis types picking on rock and pop stars and so for the first time you know Suzy and Cleveland and Hank in in Alabama they are picking the pop and rock star I mm many of them so Carrie Underwood as an example Daughtry is an example dozens and dozens of artists are not being picked they're in the right you know it's since going around the gatekeepers and getting chosen by the American people directly and then the third and fourth things are Alice Cooper is an example where in the old days when a rock star would have a conversion to Christianity he would immediately exit offstage right usually she never see again yeah that's that's exactly right cut his hair and then start singing him that was like the paradigm I'm only half kidding it's actually fairly true but Alice is a great example where as the theology changes the activity changes so Alice goes to his preacher after he becomes a born-again Christian his preacher this is you what should I do now right because I'm Alice Cooper and I got this makeup and it's crazy stuff and his preacher says to him does God make mistakes and Alice like I don't think so and he says well God made you to be Alice Cooper so go back out there and be the most God honoring Alice Cooper you can be so that's a third the fourth one is bands that were big in the Christian world began to cross over into the mainstream side for instance Switchfoot or joy Williams actually had a career as a Christian pop star before she became half of the Civil War's who became this you know popular band so those four phenomena have really changed the landscape speaking of Switchfoot you write in the book quote Switchfoot presented fans and the pop music culture with a winsome group of surf rockers who smiles floppy hairstyles and comforting personae masked a deep message one that was in some ways far more troubling than anything that Marilyn Manson Eminem or insane clown posse had managed to shock the public with rock and roll is all about rebellion what does rebellion look like in the 21st century in 2018 that's a great question you know I went to a Switchfoot concert at the House of Blues one time and I look back up in the in the seats and I saw three generations of fans I saw grandparents parents and kids and I thought this is really interesting because again rock and roll is birthed in I'm gonna do something that my parents don't want me to do and and and yet you know what does that look like today I mean the same thing happens with kiss concerts I've heard the same thing as well that you have three generations of fans there I just you know rock and roll doesn't have to be this divisive thing it can be a uniting thing but also just in terms of messaging you know there there is a there has been something of a conservative backlash against the old ways of rock and roll and you know I I credit part of this by the way too the old vh1 series behind the music if you guys remember that from the old days I think that's how today it's hard to quantify but it's had an effect and the reason I say that is you know young bands would grow up in their teenagers they would watch that show and every show is like the same story over and over and over again right Rockstar makes it big makes a ton of money snorts it up his nose have five wives and now he's homeless right and I think I think young rock stars like why do I want to do that like I don't want to do that I want to be different I want to do something interesting and unusual and not fall into the same traps that happened to my forebears I think that's had an impact I think it's it is kind of led to even if you're not religious there's definitely kind of a cleen Rock of segments of rock music where they just I never forget going back going to a Megadeth concert and and I went backstage and it was like an alcohol-free zone I'm thinking like wait a minute this is a mega tent where what happened there is something that gets a little exhausting about sex drugs and rock and roll right you know if you're just all you're doing is going out and doing a bunch of drugs and partying all night at a certain point it does get old it's not very gratifying you do get sex Austin ultimately and that there might be it to where to say it's very easy it's it's a cliche to say go out and you know party all night and have casual sex forever and ever there's a time and a place for everything in that place is college that you have to graduate college at some point you have to go on and grow up eventually and there's a real rebellion in that there's I think it's why Jordan Peterson is selling a gazillion books now and other people who talk about this the people say you know maybe I should clean my room maybe I should get my life in order maybe there's something rebellious about that well when the culture is now baby boomers to be countercultural is in a sense going against that ethic and there was a funny moment I talked about in the book when Justin Bieber speaks out against abortion and I just thought it was so odd that I'm watching the view one day and the old ladies in the view are scolding Justin Bieber for being pro-life it's like something is wrong with this picture right there lay there saying well he doesn't understand because he to young it's like well you have a 60 year old you know whatever her age is Joy Behar like scolding whoever whoever was in the view that week right it was but it was definitely things are upside-down and there's an old adage that says to rebel and season is not to rebel and so when everybody is of a certain mindset it's no longer that cool and so you are having a kind of a countercultural moment in a lot of cases that is such a funny moment where they say do you don't understand Bieber you're not rebellious like all of us 60 year old women you say uh you keep using that word I think it doesn't mean what you think it means well you know as the son of a unwed teen mom I think Justin Bieber may have a an opinion on that topic shall we say his life could have gone on in a very different direction as it had his mother made a different choice that's right and there has been a shift within even certain musicians themselves within broadly over these musicians you would see Janet Jackson as you write she used to sing about chastity she's saying let's wait awhile seven years later she's singing that's the way love goes miley cyrus is this cute little kid and then she has this shift and she's doing heinous and not even terribly scintillating things on stage during the VMAs is this a cultural shift or is this just the way the music industry works well there is a process I give the Janet Jackson story in the book and it's a great example and thank you for reading the book by the way what a shock an interviewer has read the book they never they never do the only interviewers only ever read my my book because it's a quick lead but I really enjoyed the book I recommend it to anyone listening and watching no thank you yeah there is a certain pressure the music business puts on you and Janet's a great example I've interviewed her once years ago but you know sure her mother is a very devout Jehovah's Witness she's sort of a traditionally a traditionally conservative type person but over a period of time the music business kind of wears you down and the other thing that's an interesting phenomenon is there's a lot of male songwriters right kind of male sexual fantasy songs and then give them two female songwriters and say here sing this right and it's a very odd thing as I went back and researched some of the most sexy all songs in our history I find out that most of the written by like middle-aged men right and there's they're just work I remember thinking about even that an old song you have may remember there's a song oh the Divinyls you know I touch myself I thought myself I look that up and those are guys that wrote that or exactly that's a guy shorter but it really is astonishing and so there is that pressure that comes to bear from the machine on these young artists to be a hyper-sexualized and to write it about topics like the artists sing about topics like that would that that really is probably not naturally in many of their hearts on the question of the of the product itself of the pop music itself I you know and the conservative view on this the traditionalist knock was probably best summed up by Hank Hill the cartoon character who said Christian rock doesn't make rock music better it makes Christianity worse and you talk about Kanye West in the book and some Kanye songs are both good songs and they're quite Christian you know Jesus walks God show me the way because the devil is trying to break me down others are not good songs and they're very self aggrandizing and they're vicious and they're just awful and is there value to a Christian pop culture if the culture itself is degraded if the music itself isn't very good does this mean you're not gonna be buying Snoop Dogg's gospel I was I was waiting to be on it I was hoping he would ask me to perform but c'est la vie it's tough business right well you know seriously on a serious note I think what happened in the old days like when we were kids you know your friends would say about Christian rock Sox whatever what I discovered what it really wasn't the artists it was the pressures that would come to bear on an artist in the Christian music industry that would make the music kind of boring and derivative and in a certain way and the reason I know this for a fact is like an artist like joy Williams so when she did three Christian pop albums you know it was Christian pop she kind of breaks free of the constraints of that industry and then becomes the civil wars and now suddenly every NPR loving vocal driving person in on the East Coast loves our and adores her right it's the same person but she was now more free to express yourself artistically she had a better budget so I don't think the artists themselves of the music was that way but sometimes the pressure of that industry caused it to be less than great music but in terms of like the hip-hop community and the in the gospel community there's always been a tension between those two worlds and there's always been a temptation on the part of especially african-american artists to make one one-off gospel albums right so you've got Snoop Dogg doing you know kind of r-rated your x-rated stuff then I'm gonna do my gospel album now just a little bit weird right but you know I don't want to judge anybody's gospel album but I think what we're moving more toward is a cohesive view and Ackley's a person who doesn't do one offs I'll get alice cooper's a great example so he's still Alice Cooper but his lyrics are different now and so you don't have the Alice Cooper does gospel and then does Alice Cooper he's one in the same but he's incorporating his beliefs into his stage persona and into his music that's right he has a great line Alice Cooper writes the introduction to the book and he has this great line he says what the rocker is really doing is giving a gigantic yell for help and it's a it's a good line for conservatives who say oh I don't want to listen to this you know the Allan bloom idea of like it's all bad and making the kids immoral there is this other side of it which is perhaps this is a kind of cry for meaning and a cry for God that we all do and the most you know black nail polish death metal guys or maybe doing it more than anybody else my last question and I'll let you go is on the future you've been around here a long time you've written about this you've participated in these industries you know a lot of the players where as Hollywood headed we're in the the me2 era we're seeing a rise of Christian music and religious movies what do the next 10 years of the entertainment industry look like well you know I was thinking about this the other day and I went back and rewatched a lot of I Love Lucy I thought to myself now how is it that first of all heard her maiden name is ceil mcgillich McGillicuddy call me crazy but she's Irish he's Cuban right so you have an Irish girl on a Cuban guy that get-together call me crazy but they're probably Catholic now when did you ever see a Catholic moment of any kind of that entire TV series if you ever go to Mass was there ever a priest no they just went in separate beds that was the only moment you know what but the point is there's no religious moment that I could see in that entire series of two catholic people who've got together and fell in love and got married i think what it is is we had this obsession in a great part of the last 50 years with deep religious izing our pop culture and i don't know what the reasons were exactly maybe it was an advertiser saying hey don't show them with a priest you know we don't want to take sides and religion but the point is we've tried we've bent over backwards to create this fake secular culture that doesn't even exist right in our real lives you know our neighbors go to church once a week your neighbor goes to Bible study whatever it might be it's a temple and so we for some reason we felt the need to create a fake artificial culture in our media that's not reflective of our lives we always talk about we've got to keep it real we haven't keeping it real and so I think those walls are breaking down and more and more artists consumers are saying why can't why can't that character go to church on that show I can't there be a song that talks about faith so I think if you're a person who wants your entertainment separated from faith and spiritual expressions I think the last 10 years in the next 10 years will be the ultimate nightmare for you because there's no stopping now the boundaries have been broken down and people are refusing to abide by those old rules where you have to separate your art from your life and you know I I believe in God and I think that the most interesting pieces are the ones that you know explore what it means to be human and life after death and life meaning and all those things we can't do that then it kind of limits and makes art less interesting so for me you know I think I'm one of 90% that believe in God I think it's fine that then we have our entertain with with a side with it with a strong helping of God in the mix of faith and religion and if it becomes divisive that's another issue with it that could have but if it's if it's in a way that causes us to think deeply about things in our lives and meaning I think it's fine and that's such a good point that it's that that's secular that unreligious that world where there's no faith discussion whatsoever that's just made up that's totally fictitious and what are we afraid of why are we so afraid to have our art reflect real life to quote some rock music we're not gonna take it we're not going to take it we're not gonna take it anymore mark thank you so much for being here the book is really good I recommend it to everybody Rock gets religion excellent really good to have you here mark Joseph thanks so much wife it have you back again thanks for having me how cool is that guy that he almost came not a big fan of Christian rock but he did make a compelling argument that part of the reason that the Christian rock was so terrible is because it was this ghettoized industry and now that we've taken over the mainstream there's something really beautiful about that I've been saying this all along that when the gatekeepers go away a much better culture emerges than the one that gatekeepers in Hollywood in New York have foisted on us for so many decades we have to talk about the news we have a lot more to talk about how everyone is oversimplifying the China situation the invasion on our southern border as well as a moment of hope we have to turn of course to the the leader of the future are our dear leader David Hogg we will look at that as well but if you are not on Daily wire calm you just can't do it I'm sorry you need to go there right now it is only $10 a month or $100 for annual membership if you already subscribed thank you very much you helped us keep the lights on what do you get you get me you get the under Clavin show you get the Ben Shapiro show you have to ask questions in the mailbag coming up with mr. Andrew Clavin himself it's gonna be very good if the Supreme Lord of the multiverse you can get all your mailbag questions and for tomorrow make sure you get them in ASAP but again none of that matters whatsoever you get this you get the leftist tears tumblr ah you know I use mine every day I was without it for that week that I was in New York I barely made it back I barely made it back alive I was gonna have to swim back I felt like I was on I was in late stage Titanic without my leftist ears tumblr don't put yourself in such a danger don't allow your family to be in such risk in danger go to daily wire comm we'll be right back big headline today for those following the economy of course nobody really follows the economy all we want to talk about is guns and sex and abortion and stuff because those are really juicy mostly sex that's all anybody in this culture wants to talk about different bathrooms and things like that but the big headline is that China's striking back with tariffs against the US this is the great trade war that we've heard about Trump how could you be so stupid no why the global trade is about to implode that isn't the case and there are a lot of people who are saying this we're going back to old economics and all tariffs are terrible and we only need free or trade and even if the other guy doesn't have free trade we're gonna have free trade and the situation is much more complicated than that economics is more complicated than little slogans so China striking back there they have tariffs targeting soybeans commercial messenger planes SUVs beef sorghum a few other things the tariffs are really pretty brilliant because they're intended to hit states that supported Donald Trump so yeah that's cute good move guys they they want to hit us and they basically want us to lay off of their steel and aluminum tariffs but of course the steel and aluminum tariffs which is basically targeted just to China is is a legitimate response to their violations of World Trade Organization treaties China is not playing by the rules they've been violating the rules for a very long time and in a lot of ways so it's a perfectly reasonable response you can't say that what we currently have is free trade they're cheating and we and we're Schnucks basically we're the ones who have to deal with that and a lot of these tariffs are really just threats to say clean up your act and stop treating us poorly there are three major ways that China gets its hands on u.s. tech and cheats here it's called forced tech transfer The Wall Street Journal has a good down of this today it's not just that they are illegally subsidizing their steel industry in their aluminum industry though that's not good and that is in violation of trade global trade treaties they also steal our technology and this isn't just a slogan or something they do it in very specific ways American companies that do business in China have to share technology and data in return for getting market access that's not free trade we have to give them our technology which is very expensive to build we have to give them data which includes a lot of information that I think nobody in the United States wants to go over to China we have to just hand that over to them in order to have access to the market this costs the u.s. an estimated 30 billion dollars each year another way that they do this is joint ventures so again if you want access to the market you need to partner with a Chinese company and you have to produce things in China a good example of this is car companies if car companies want to sell in China and they don't want to have massive tariffs they have to produce the cars in China and they have to partner with a Chinese company and why is that is it just to employ a few people at a company no it's because it gives the Chinese that technology so the the the difference between private industry and the government in China is slim if existent at all so when we partner with these companies we're just giving them our technology and you might say okay well what's the big deal with emerging technologies that are very expensive to create that gives them an insane advantage just think about Tesla how long did it take to develop the technology for Tesla how much money did it cost and then we say okay we want to sell Tesla and China they say that's fine give us everything you give us everything then you can sell in China that's unacceptable and it people on both sides of the aisle have been warning us about this for decades President Trump is doing something to combat it another way is bureaucracy licensing red tape so China forces just to use one example u.s. apps cell phone apps if you want access to China you have to store the data in China which means you have to give the Chinese government access to this data now people are losing their minds over this minor Facebook issue Lefty heads are exploding because companies used Facebook appropriately and got some of our data you know you upload all of your dad at a Facebook and then some company gives you a quiz you take the quiz and you say ok I'll give you all my data to take some stupid quiz and then they have their data they lose their minds over this but China's demanding this from US companies and we say nothing why because the left wants to attack Donald Trump they also you have to do research and development on Chinese soil what's the purpose of that stealing technology this is not some conspiracy this is not some secret plan of the Chinese government they're openly doing this they're doing this through their laws this is out in the open and we should do something about it this is not to say that we shouldn't be free traders of course we're free traders free trade is a wonderful thing it's a lifted a lot of people out of poverty a lot of people out of poverty in China by the way and it gives us cheap consumer goods and it's a really nice thing but people have to play by the rules and we shouldn't allow ourselves to be cheated and we shouldn't just use silly slogans and different isms to attack this when the issues very complicated it's been going on for a long time and finally someone has the cojones to do something about it that'sFull review >>